“I Will Break Your F**king Camera”
by Troy on Oct.23, 2009
A couple of days ago, Stuart and I decided to walk through the Financial District for lunch.
I had heard that the security guards at 555 California were unappreciative of photography. I mentioned this to Stuart and we agreed that these types of rules were silly and served no real purpose.
So we decided to check it out and within a few moments several security guards greeted us with wagging fingers and walkie-talkies.
No photography, they stated clearly. Why, we responded. Safety, they said.
I decided to challenge this statement and the older of the bunch (left) asked me if I wanted to be punched in the face. No, I replied, I have to go back to work and a black eye would make things awkward for me. He then asked me how I would feel if he broke my camera. I told him I would be bummed, but that I needed an upgrade and if he touched me or my camera I would seek monetary legal action to the extent of a brand new Canon 5D Mark II.
Shortly after, my internal voice of reason set in and I decided to leave. The conversation was going no where and a definition of “safety” was unable to be produced.
I wonder what the fear is all about? There are currently 1096 images of 555 California on Flickr, and not one of them indicates a compromise of security. It just doesn’t make any sense.
UPDATE: I received an email from Fatima Vegas who works on the security team for Vornado Reality, who manages the property:
“Thank you for your e-mail. I just received information from the incident within the past hour. I am investigating the matter. This is not typical of our security team at 555 California St. If our investigation results in the officer behaving in an unprofessional manner, he will be disciplined accordingly. We do not tolerate that sort of behavior from any of our service providers.”
UPDATE #2: I was put in touch with the ACLU via my friend Thomas Hawk yesterday afternoon. Each one clarified a couple of things about “Private Property” such as the plaza in front of this building:
The plaza where the photography was taking place in was a *public* area on private property. These areas are treated differently than other a citizen’s private property (such as your home). In order to prevent a public easement of the property and losing their private property distinction, property owners will install little plaques denoting the area as giving the public a right to pass under California Civil Code 1009 typically. While this notification preserves their ultimate property right, it also reduces the control that they have over that area.
Specifically, the code states: “After taking any of the actions set forth in paragraph (1), (2), or (3), and during the time such action is effective, the owner shall not prevent any public use which is appropriate under the permission granted pursuant to such paragraphs by physical obstruction, notice, or otherwise.” Restricting photography from the plaza in front of 555 California violates the public use clause in California Civil Code 1009.
In any event, even if this is not a Privately Owned Public Space, nothing in California law makes it a crime for a person to be on non-residential property that is open to the public unless one is interfering with the owner’s business activities, and taking a photo is not.
October 28th, 2009 on 12:36 pm
I am a professional photographer that has worked for architectural firms to photograph buildings. During these shoots, I would occasionally be harassed by building security guards. This led me to find out what my legal rights were.
As long as you are on public property, ie; sidewalk, street, etc… you have every right to take pictures of any building.
October 28th, 2009 on 9:17 pm
I worked at this location for many years.All these photo restrictions were created by Lawrence Francis the Security director.He is the right person to blame for this action.I don’t believe Vornado Realty was aware of these rules created by unprofessional Security director.
October 29th, 2009 on 12:27 pm
Well the type of people who normally view boingboing.net’s content may have different views from myself, I would take this as a perfect example as to why more people should CCW. in an altercation like this I would be very happy to know that if any of these men attempted to aggress me. that I could legally and within my right, take a step back put out my left hand, place my right hand on the grip of my gun, and make it clear in no uncertain terms that if this man had any real intention to attack me i would assert my right to defend my life. yes the cops would be called, but unless those cops ignore the public property statute. (which, in california, they probably would) the security personnel would be told to back off by more people with guns (i.e. law enforcement) and you could happily take all the photos you like knowing that the abuse of power had been rectified. I know it is much trickier for you guys out there in California to get a CCW. My sympathies.
October 29th, 2009 on 3:13 pm
I went to 555 California Street (Bank of America Building) today with Derek of 4Fifteen to see if we would be hassled for shooting pics. We lurked all throughout the plaza firing off pics one after the other, but the security didn’t say a word — and they were looking right at us through the windows, too. I reckon we were there for about ten to fifteen minutes. Maybe someone in charge over there had a little talk with the security team about this incident and the laws surrounding photography in public places, I don’t know, but a 555 person flash mob is definitely not necessary here.
Happy shooting!
November 4th, 2009 on 7:06 am
Idiot at Financial District! Hate them all!
November 15th, 2009 on 5:53 am
Crazy stuff
November 17th, 2009 on 9:16 am
This attitude was present even before 9-11.
I’ve worked with a lot of cops and there has only been one that was a dick.
In college, I always had a run-in with a certain cop while on the scenes of accidents or fires. Then he went to far. Then I earned a spot as a photographer at the Bowling Green Daily News, while still in college.
During a fire that destroyed an historic church, he told me “Stay in this one spot and if you move, I’ll take you in.”
My Chief Photographer, Joe Imel, showed up after that, I told him what was going on. He said he would talk with the cop. After a few minutes, Joe came back and said: I don’t know what you did to piss him off, but he’s standing his ground.
I looked around and saw about a dozen other photographers shooting and said to hell with it. I left the spot and started shooting. The cop saw me and just sneered.
I filed a complaint with the Chief of Police after I went to the office and processed my film and scanned my images.
Joe did ask me what the hell I was doing there. I said I had to skip class to shoot it. He just laughed.
Yeah, cops can be dicks, security guards are just assholes.
January 28th, 2010 on 11:14 am
I can tell you as a Security Guard that a lot of this retarded policies come from the client, the security company is just contracted to do whatever they tell you, I used to work on another high profile downtown building in SF and they had no such policies before or after 911. Having said that I work and have worked with some really nice security guys and some complete assholes, a lot of this guys do not want to be there and hate their lives and everyone around them. They use their job as Security Officers to take their frustrations on everyone. On my present job we are allowed to arrest people and use force, a lot of us don’t do it though because of the potential consequences.
Also as a contract Security Officer wich most of us are, we are only to Observe and Report, but due to ignorance or disregard on the clients side and due to the fact that the Contract Security is very competitive, they make Officers do stuff they are neither suppossed to or qualified to
do. You dealt with this jerks for a few minutes, imagine dealing with their savage attitudes for eight hours.
Also the Plaza in 555 and 101 California are private property but are also public access, so if they want to effectively enforce that no picture taking rule they need to make it a restricted access area. But don’t tell them that because they will want to kick your ass again!
February 12th, 2010 on 1:29 pm
I’ve had similar incidents, but not at this location & not this kind of environment. As background, I photograph trains & railroads, particular those which switch major industries. Allow me to share.
At Channahon, Illinois in June 2006 I was hassled by workers at a (then) Ineos Styrenics chemical plant along the Des Plaines River. This is a former BASF facility, which produces plastic pellets from inbound chemicals such as Styrene Monomer Inhibited (a known volatile substance).
After photographing an adjacent customer who had their own locomotive, I had briefly checked in with the security at Ineos with the sole inquiry being if they had their own locomotive. The lady came out, and gave me the cold shoulder, and said “she wasn’t aware of anyone in the plant who could help me”. I drove off, with other scheduled stops on my agenda.
On my way south via I-55, heading back to my hotel near Kankakee, I spotted a yellow locomotive switching railcars at the plant above. I detoured down to the next exit & backtracked to the chemical plant, catching the locomotive in question CROSSING A PUBLIC STREET along the south side of Ineos’ plant. After attaining permission, I parked in the nearby company’s yard and waited for this engine to make a few moves across the road so I could get some photos. I took many photos, as this locomotive was undocumented by friends who record such information.
After a few passes, a fellow walked down to the fence line. He & the engineer had a brief conversation & fingers were being pointed in my direction. After driving around to the other side of the PUBLIC ROAD CROSSING and photographing some different angles, the engineer stopped in the middle of the road crossing to chastize me about “photographing the chemical plant’s locomotive” and that “the police are on the way”. I gave him a piece of my mind, and when he shoved clear of the PUBLIC ROAD CROSSING, the first Sheriff had already arrived. I pulled over into the lot that I’d been shooting from before, and the Sheriff turned around. We exchanged information, he was rather quiet about the whole mess.
A more senior officer arrived at the scene, this being the officer who took the call from dispatch. He was somewhat pissed, telling me that, “If I wanted to shoot photographs of trains, there are plenty OTHERS around”. I told him I understand that, but I was interested in this particular one, and that I’d made an effort to discuss with the company earlier if they had a locomotive. I think he was more pissed about the fact he had to come out because of such a bogus call.
The fireworks started when the same plant employee who radioed the engineer came down & started yelling at me, stating that “I’m not allowed to shoot pictures of their chemical plant OR their locomotive!”. I told him, as long as that engine is being shot FROM public property, you can go to hell buddy. Now get the f**k outta my face!”. The elder cop got shitty with me, threatening disorderly conduct on my part. Cooler heads prevailed, and we all left without penalty. I told the cop that I was more than willing to wait for them, because I’m aware of my rights & I’m doing nothing unlawful.
I’ve had similar instances at other locations since, but this was probably the worst of them in the 13 years I’ve been shooting. I’ve also heard of such people being detained by police for shooting chemical / petro facilities from public sidewalks or street sides with the threat of “Homeland Security” being thrown in their face, and demands being made that they hand over the media in which they photographed the subject.
February 16th, 2010 on 8:59 pm
PLEASE-SECURITY REACTS TO SENSITIVE EVENTS-LIKE OUR DAMNED SECURITY WAS BREECHED IN 9-11! THE ENEMY HAS EYES ON TARGETS LIKE FUEL AND CHEMICAL DEPOTS-LET US NOT MAKE LIFE EASY FOR THEM! GET CLEARED ARCHIVAL PHOTOS FOR NEWS ARTICLES-HELL, YOU AREN’T GONNA SEE JOHN F. KENNEDY’S GHOST PEERING FROM THE SHADOWS! BE SERIOUS-THESE GUYS HAVE MORE THEN A JOB ON THE LINE—–AND, NO, I AM N-O-T A HUGE MANAGEMENT CORPORATE WEENIE—-VERY PRO-UNION! SECURITY TRUMPS “THE MONEY SHOT”!
February 17th, 2010 on 7:55 am
This is where you are a complete bumbling idiot. I have THE RIGHT to photograph the premises from where I was standing, and I did make an effort to contact plant personnel earlier in the day. I was given the cold shoulder. All that shows is their unwillingness to cooperate, as far as I’m concerned, so I went & took my photos FROM PUBLIC PROPERTY anyway.
There are two things I don’t tolerate in this country, as we approach “police state” status more & more with every passing year:
1) Don’t ignore me or lie to me, if you expect me to play ball. You may be a paranoid target, but that doesn’t give you the right to disregard my rights. That is, these companies should educate themselves & learn that “Homeland Security” doesn’t deny me the right to photograph their property from outside the perimeter.
2) Don’t tell me that I’m “not allowed” or give some bullshit “Homeland Security” excuse as a reason for denying me the right to photograph your property from OUTSIDE your propery, or as was the case in my scenario above, PUBLIC property.
Homeland Security is meant for the creatons who run away when approached for taking photos, or those who are sneaking around places where they should not be. I was parked on private property (with permission), taking photos from a public road of a train crossing the same public road. If you have a problem with that, you have serious authority problems. I’m not a sheep that buys into the “run scared” mentality that our nation has become.
February 18th, 2010 on 9:17 am
Why is it in America if you ask some one not to do something, for whatever reason there will always be some asshole who feels entitlement to do it any way. The fact is you do not know the reason the owners of the building do not want you to take pictures. Messing with the people who are meant to enforce the rule rather than the ones who made the rule makes you nothing more than punks that display a complete lack of understanding on how thing work in a free society. I once had a lot of ideas but till I started acting them out they were just that ideas. Now I make things happen instead of criticizing minor mistakes of others that make things happen.
thank you for pointing this out to me.
February 18th, 2010 on 9:58 am
If you want to take no for an answer simply b/c the individual issuing direction is wearing some sort of badge/walkie-talkie — that is your decision. I choose to express myself within the scope of the law and that right is very important to me.
If you had read the entire post, you would see that local and state law dictates this particular property is open to the public to enjoy, be that reading a book, having a smoke, drinking a coffee, and even…gasp…taking a photograph.
As you can tell from the other commentators, this type of wrongful denial of our rights happens very often, and all over the country. I am proud to stick up for not only my own personal rights, but the rights of fellow photographers.
I hope that helps clear up your misunderstanding of a free society governed by law and not the whimsy of a few individuals.
May 21st, 2010 on 11:30 am
Troy,
Sorry about the late response, I feel as though you missed my point mabe you did not read my entire post. That picture is wothless (although very cool looking and probly was fun for you to take), the post is worthless. Just like every other Amarican you are still sitting on your hands doing nithing about it. What because someone has a bumpersticker on thier car that reads “Stop Abortion” means they are stopping abortion? No. It only means they are pointing out that they do not like abortion. Just like you Pointing out what every American already knows, there are as lot of dumb laws and unjustices in America. These problems will not be fixed by propaganda they can only be fixed by good inentioned people doing good intentioned things, which for all you know is whats going on already. remember the Government is run by people and all the people I know make mistakes from time to time. Have you tried to expresed your idias to your congressmen? Have you tried to do anything other than feed your ego by being defient. Any one can take a picture of a building they are not supposed to take a picture of, it takes a real man to make it legal to take a picture of a building it is illegal to take a picture of.
and with the info in this blog I doubt you are changing any laws.
February 18th, 2010 on 4:47 pm
Why, Jeff? Let’s see:
1) Because I’m not you, and I don’t bend over for anyone just because they are in a position of authority.
2) I have the right to do so.
3) I wasn’t being asked “not to take pictures”, I was TOLD that I couldn’t, and chose to show these parties otherwise. I challenge anyone to order me to delete footage off my camera, which I won’t, because I want to use it in court when I have to defend myself.
This isn’t a police state, and it’s not 1970’s chain gang Alabama or Mississippi. “Just ‘cuz da boss” tell you to do something, Jeff do you always do it? Do you always take someone’s word for gospel, or worse yet, that an authority actually knows the laws which they are bound to enforce? Or are you that gullible to believe that what they’re feeding you is truth? I don’t. I educate myself. I’m allowed to take photos of anything except military establishments, and I try to stray away from nuclear facilities.
Newsflash – Until you grow some & “start acting them (your ideas) out”, so long as they’re legal, you’re always going to be a sheep. People like you are the reason we lose rights in this country, because you ask “How high?” when someone says “JUMP boy!” rather than (figuratively) sticking your foot up his ass.
May 21st, 2010 on 11:43 am
Auggie,
You are a pussy, you want to be difient grow some balls and do something with your life instied of hiding behind a camra like a little bitch.
I bet you all raise a big stink and do nothing about this, that is my point. “oh Im free to do what I want, Im Amarican.” You my friend are a tool, a slave to your own bulshit. keep on reading your books but until you can post the reasone you can not take a picture of that building you are nothing but a misinformed kid.
May 22nd, 2010 on 2:26 am
I prefer asshole, not tool. And uninformed kid, I am not. I’ve been shooting for 13 years now, you stupid ass. Sounds to me like you bend over whenever someone tells you “No, you’re not allowed to do that!” When in doubt, I question authority. I’d say the “tool” comment resembles idiots like you.
And I agree with Jeff below, you need spell check…badly.
May 22nd, 2010 on 4:34 pm
My bad on the spelling, it was a rush job. In general I do not post to blogs for this reason or any for that matter.
First off, I never take it up the ass as you imply, I am the guy who sticks it in the ass. It is my job to get things done, not bitch about why something is not done. You see, you stop at the picture and your blog. You are doing exactly what they expect you to do. This is why you are a tool not an ass hole, tool.
I must ask you; did those guys give you an answer?
Or just ask you for your camera?
May 23rd, 2010 on 6:17 am
No one once has “asked for my camera”. If anyone lays their hands on my camera, I take it as a physical attack, and I will beat the piss out of them with it. It is my personal property, and some rent-a-douche security boob isn’t going to tell me otherwise, much less lay his hands on my property in a power-hungry demand to delete my content or hand over the film with which I shot the object of my desire. If necessary, I will get the local authorities involved, and MOST of them know the laws, or least the grey line they’re not to cross.
“Homeland Security” is not a valid crime, nor code of conduct/law, and companies have no real grounds to scream for it. These days, I drive right up to the guard shack, and I TELL THEM that I’m going to photograph a piece of equipment from a public street adjacent to their property. Some understand completely, and others have told me “that’s not allowed”. To which degree I state, “call the cops”, and I’ll be waiting when they show up. Most parties are understanding of my rights, and their limits, at which point the threat is idle.
If you don’t want your picture taken, build a house in the woods, so to speak. At least then, the idiot who wants your photo so badly will need to trespass – which IS a crime.
May 21st, 2010 on 11:47 am
opps just read your second post, keep me posted.
I hope you take the info you are building up to the right place.
feel free to bash me Troy I have it coming.
but dont get confused Auggie your still a major dick!
May 21st, 2010 on 11:59 am
you should turn on spell-check on all of your computers. a quick rant littered with typos tends to be taken less seriously than a well though out, legible response.
you are free to your own opinion, and i am not going to bash you. what i will do is continue to stand behind my convictions and keep taking photos!
May 22nd, 2010 on 4:58 pm
Troy,
Sweet, thanks for the advice, I did miss speak. I am all about standing for your rights. I am just sick of all the bitching and no one owning up to anything. It looks like your fighting head on and I hope you make it legal to photograph the building. If Take this next part or leave it; be mindful there is always a reason and sometimes it is not fear.
JC
out
June 8th, 2010 on 9:58 am
Those who are willing to give up even seemingly unnecessary “rights” for security deserve neither.