Comments on: Muni Issues An Official Photography Policy

By: Miscellaneous, Scattered Thoughts | Truth and Justice For All

Miscellaneous, Scattered Thoughts | Truth and Justice For All — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:49:17 +0000

[...] see the San Francisco Metropolitan Transit Agency’s about-to-be-issued very reasonable policy regarding non-commercial photography within SFMTA [...]

By: Lana

Lana — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:55:59 +0000

Wow…thanks for this. I was stopped from photographing by a VERY rude MUNI employee at West Portal station. All I had was my handheld digital camera. I wasn’t blocking anything or anyone. In fact, I was sitting on a bench when the MUNI guy walked over to me and made a huge production out of telling me that taking photos in a MUNI station was illegal and that he had the right to confiscate my camera if I didn’t put it awa ASAP. Not wanting to lose my camera, and not really caring much about pictures of West portal, I put the cam away and let the whole thing go. I think I’ll print this policy up and carry it with me.

By: Eric in SF

Eric in SF — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 03:35:49 +0000

Baby steps, I keep telling myself Baby Steps…..

This policy has so loopholes bigger than the rings of Saturn. It’s only the word of their current spokesman that dSLRs are allowed. Change of guard at MUNI and the same policy will be used against you.

The nonpublic areas prohibition is another problem. Theoretically you could be cited long after the fact after someone prints out your full resolution photo from Flickr, highlights all areas in the image that are in non-public areas and sends it to a young hotshot ADA looking to make their first case and well you know the rest.

Baby steps.

By: Bryan Costales

Bryan Costales — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 18:32:33 +0000

The “All photographers and videographers are prohibited from entering, photographing, or
taking video in non-public areas of the SFMTA’s transit system.” seems odd. Does this mean that we cannot shoot the tunnels from inside a subway car? Or the fenced off area of the Embarcadero station?
It seems to me this statement is incorrect and should read in part, “…prohibited from entering to photograph…”

By: Derek Powazek - links for 2010-01-05

Derek Powazek - links for 2010-01-05 — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 10:01:42 +0000

[...] Muni Issues An Official Photography Policy Finally! (tags: sanfrancisco photography) [...]

By: RT Murphy

RT Murphy — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 06:39:51 +0000

Hi, guys.
It all sounds reasonable.
Just remember, if some Constable Plod type Muni employee starts grumbling and moaning, ask him if he ever heard of the 1st Amendment, if he understands the concept of public property and tell him to get on with his job and get out of your face.
Fill your space. These guys are BSing.
Remember that a good 15-20% of Muni passengers have these apparatchiks utterly freaked with a big “Don’t mess with me” sign on their foreheads. And no one messes with them.
It only takes a hint for them to want to go do something less dangerous.
Most Muni guys are cool and a few are officious idiots.
I spent 5 years working for them and did what I wanted with never a hassle (though I always ran on time) and some of it was spectacular.
Once you can no longer accord someone a presumption of reason, cut it short, don’t play their game and make sure what you are doing is reasonable.
Sometimes you can be too polite and its only pearls before swine and encourages them.

BTW nice station pics on this page. Good shooting, guy.

RT Murphy

By: sfmike

sfmike — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 03:03:52 +0000

Thanks so much for this. It’s a huge step forward. I’ve been asked to stop taking digital photos with a smallish camera in Muni stations quite a few times over the last eight years, usually with the threat of terrorism as the excuse. They don’t want people casing out the joint, so to speak, but with the advent of phone cameras in everyone’s pockets that excuse has gotten even more ridiculous. Again, thanks.

By: Brian

Brian — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 02:28:47 +0000

A monopod IS ok. A monopod does not block passage of others, and is not a tripping hazard. A monopod does not extend beyond your own personal space. And it is essentially the same thing as a walking stick. No reason for a walking stick to be disallowed.

By: Brian

Brian — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 02:25:28 +0000

I disagree. You always have to “fully and immediately comply with any requests, directions or instructions from SFMTA personnel related to safety concerns” no matter if photography is involved or not. This is not a new rule.

If an employee is lodging clearly bogus instructions at you to stop, just ask for a supervisor or an policeman to clarify the situation. If the employee refuses, then feel free to keep on taking photos.

And this policy is not “legal” in any way. This policy does not changes things at all in any legal manner. For that to be the case, you’d have to see this policy contained in one of the official laws on this page: http://www.sfmta.com/cms/ains/lawsindx.htm

Since it’s not there, it’s just a policy of MUNI. AFAIK in order to prohibit photography in any way, a law saying such would need to show up in one of the laws linked on that page.

By: Brian

Brian — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 02:17:08 +0000

Tripods and cables are tripping hazards. Makes perfect sense that they wouldn’t be allowed.

By: Brian

Brian — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 02:16:02 +0000

Those aren’t open ended. Those are simply extensions of the existing rules that say you can’t interfere with transit operations and that you can’t bring objects so large into the system that they block the movement of other passengers. These aren’t new rules. They are just reiterating them for you and inserting the word camera so photographers don’t think that because photography is legal, they are free to violate other existing rules of the transit agency. This is the same at all the transit agencies in this country*.

*except at PATH, which has a prohibition on photography

By: Brian

Brian — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 02:10:47 +0000

This policy is really no different from the policies of many transit agencies around the country. Nothing in that policy we didn’t already know. Take out the word “photography” from throughout the text and all the rules are existing rules (or are clearly based on existing rules) of most major transit agencies, and likely MUNI as well. The fact probably is that, like almost every transit agency in this country, there is nothing about photography in MUNI’s official rules and regulations. As such, any photography policy that is produced will be nothing but fluff, just confirming what is obvious to all educated people on this issue – that there are NO restrictions on amateur photography on the property of any transit system in the United States* as long as you are following all the rest of the legal rules and regulations of those transit agencies.

*Except PATH. (But PATH’s prohibition may not stand up in a court of law. Just needs someone to test it.)

By: jeremy whiteman

jeremy whiteman — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 00:07:12 +0000

well i agree with most everyone here…sounds ok, but does seem to leave alot open to interpretation…i did get hassled once, taking photos from the overpass at West Portal, but for the most part (especially on the F-line) the inspectors have left me alone.

By: Stuart

Stuart — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:57:07 +0000

Leave this at home when attempting candid MUNI photography:

It violates MUNI’s photography policy.

By: f8daily.com

f8daily.com — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:28:14 +0000

The muni guys at times can be pricks and these rules are really vague and can be interpreted in anyways the want. I guess to be safe, we just shoot with a P&S or the phone camera – LOL

Thanks for the post though. I should print this and put in my pocket in case I get hassled.

By: links for 2010-01-04

links for 2010-01-04 — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:02:45 +0000

[...] Muni Issues An Official Photography Policy (CALIBER) [...]

By: Troy

Troy — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 21:01:54 +0000

@ jeremy brooks, mattymatt, and stuart –

i pointed these ambiguities out to Judson when i read the first draft back in September and he told me us DSLR carrying photographers would receive zero hassle from Muni staff.

to that point, i have been shooting with a large DSLR (with a longer lens) on Muni for the past 8 months and have not had one problem. nor have i heard of any incident with other photographers.

By: Jon

Jon — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 19:31:48 +0000

Sounds as though a monopod is OK… they’re such maroons.

By: Stuart

Stuart — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 19:15:56 +0000

yeah, a lot of vague here, leaving the door open to a lot of interpretation, both by MUNI operatives and the public.

• Photographers and videographers must fully and immediately comply with
any requests, directions or instructions from SFMTA personnel related to
safety concerns.

This one alone is basically carte blanche for MUNI to call the shots (no pun intended). At least now, I suppose, they have a legal precedent to back up their actions.

By: A

Mon, 04 Jan 2010 19:12:34 +0000

No tripods or cables? Aww.

By: mattymatt

mattymatt — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 19:00:25 +0000

Gosh, “large cameras” is awfully vague.

By: Jeremy Brooks

Jeremy Brooks — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 18:33:51 +0000

It’s nice they finally have a policy, but it sure is open ended:

“cannot interfere with the safe operation
of any Muni vehicle as determined by the vehicle’s Operator or other SFMTA
personnel” — meaning Fare Inspector Retard can determine that you are interfering with safe operation by standing on the platform with your camera, and demand that you stop.

“Large cameras … are prohibited” — sir, that 5D II is a large camera, and is not allowed.

By: Troy

Troy — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 17:45:40 +0000

i’m fine with it

i’m surprised you didn’t catch any flack for that. that’s quite a tall set up you have going on there.

i’d love to shoot each and every muni and bart station on a slow day like Christmas sometime with my widest lens and a tripod and an empty station.

By: Dustin Diaz

Dustin Diaz — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 17:37:34 +0000

So basically, this isn’t allowed: http://www.flickr.com/photos/polvero/3458333894/